Category: Cell Phone Talk
Hi guys I want to get a talking cell phone, and a flip phone if possable. I have A T&T, and I have no clue what phones talks will run on. I want to be able to text change my ringtone, andd phonenumbers look numbers and do every feature that the phone has. I won't be using it for the internet or anything. Also when I buy talks how would I instal it? Thanks in advance!
I do not have talx, but there is a site that lists the phones they support, but having AT&T I think they only carry one type that Talx will work with. Anyways, to double check do you have access to the AT&T disabilities center? They can be very helpful. As far as how it installs...It is an extra memory chip, kinda like the sim chip, that goes into the phone. I have not seen it, but my husband has described it to me from the online pics. Anyways, if there is anything more I can do, just ask. I can post the number here later if you would like. Oh, an alternative, if you can afford it the phones that run a windows like o s have a speech program already on them...Or, at least that is what I have heard. I certainly would not mind hearing more about phones that work with AT&T that have some speech already on them as I do not intend on buying the model that AT&T use to cary that could take talx, big and not a flip, and I do not intend on paying the extra $200 or something for talx as I am using go phone, pay as you go from AT&T, instead of AT&T direct, and I doubt they would reemburse me, even being blind, without a contract... :)
Google for talks accessible phones. Most phones you have to order from ebay or places I heard, since ATNT doesn't carry them anymore. That's what I heard anyway, and the only one thay had was a really old one and it was going to cost me about the same price to put Talks on it and get the phone as it did for my iPhone so I went with the iPhone and am glad I did.
Yeah I'm not a fan of the Eye phone I like knowing the buttons I'm pressing. How do I sign up with AT&T disabilities center?
I just spoke with the AT&T disability center because I'm looking for a talking phone as well. They say they don't work with Talks, only Mobile Speak. There's four types of phones that Mobile speak will work on that they have. I don't know anything about talks, I can't find any info on it. I think if you want to have a talking phone, you have to go with mobile speak if you want AT&T.
Is it true that Mobile Speak uses the Dectalk voices? I've also heard it's cheaper than Talks, but by how much?
Last I heard, mobile speak is about $90.00, and Talks is like over $200. Don't quote me on that, it's old information. I know mobile speak is definitely $90 though.
If that's the case, then it's not surprising to me that the voices wouldn't be the best. Still, I'll take that any day over the crappy voice that comes with the IPhone.
I hope they at least have one if moble speeks is the dectalk voice that would suck, I just want the Jaws voice. Maybe if I brought a phone that worked with it they could some how make it work. I'll have to contact the Accessabilaty center.
Actually Mobile Speak is more expensive than Talks, although if you buy it through AT&T then it is only about 90 bucks. But you actually do have a choice of different voices, although I don't believe you can use Eloquence which is the default Shark voice. But when you buy the program through AT&T's Center for Customers with Disabilities they'll ask you right on the phone what speech engine you want. THere are the Dectalk voices of course but if you don't want those there are the Loquendo voices which are actually reasonably decent even if not as inflective as I would prefer. But they still sound more human than Eloquence or Dectalk. They have several American English ones and then some UK English ones as well as other languages. And that's pretty cool since if you wanted to use the Loquendo voices for your main screen reader the voices and the speech engine together cost upwards of a thousand bucks. So the fact that you can get them as part of Mobile Speak and for such a low price is pretty nice.
Can I get Simon he sounds the best? Also does anyone know the number for the Disabilaty center?
The number is as follows:
866-241-6568
I ought to call them pretty soon and find out if there are any discounts we can get on the IPhone. I've heard they'll wave the Data Plan fee at least temporarily but I don't remember if that's true or not.
There are a few phones you can buy through AT&T that will work with Talks, but they won't install Talks for you.
Some of the phones are the Nokia E71X, Nokia 6650, and the Nokia Surge.
There are other phones that work with Talks on the AT&T network, but you'd have to buy the unlocked phones since AT&T doesn't sell them.
I like Mobile Speak better in the respect that you can actually install it without any sighted help whatsoever. You could theoretically do it with Talks but it's hard to know where you are on the screen and when the promt is to install it on the phone or the memory card.
I like moble speak because it gives you the option to work with a touch screen or not. Yappers, blindies I said touch screen "some one screem!!!" lol I personally find the touch screen is a quicker way to move about htescreen then the keyboard but this is my appinion and to the poster who started this board its up to your confert level. :)
Talks 5.x works with touch screens as well.
I want to add something here for Iphone users, While the Iphone is relatively easy to use, when you get it there is a learning cover. So when you right off recommend the Iphone please keep in mind some people just want to take their phone out of the box and start using it. Yes I will agree moble speak does have al earning cover to it as well. Heck it took me a while, a few upgrades until I got confortable using moble speak with a touch screen. so in short keep in mind some of us just want to take the phone out of the box and just use the darn thing.
Just ordered mine its a sweet flip phone, with Moble Speeks, I got a Laquendo voice Simon it sounds so cool. As for the touch screen I think they suck, I've tried one, and even tried it on the eyepod. I like knowing what I'm hitting, and having the security of knowing what I'm hitting.
I love the touch screen!
I got an iphone about a month ago, and I wouldn't trade it in on any other model. It does have a learning curve, and for the first 3 or 4 days it's a little difficult to use, but after a month of using it, I love it.
It's also worth repeating that the iphone is accessible out of the box. Every accessible peace of technology I've ever owned was very expensive and full of bugs (a la jaws), but I went down to the apple store and picked up the iphone and it worked as soon as I bought it. No expensive 3rd party program, no ridiculous set up procedures. Whether we like touch screens or not, we should all think long and hard about what basket to throw our eggs in when it comes to this kind of thing. Apple isn't trying to squeeze 1000 dollars out of us per each one of their computers and or phones we as blinks want to use.
Anyway, Rant over.
i think the reason why people who has never used an iPhone thinks its so difficutl is because they alltry to use it like a sighted person at first sliding their finger all over the screen trying to find stuff. instead of using the flick left or right motions to move through all the items on the screen like using the up and down directional arrows on phones with buttons, but unfortuanately you have to have the phone for a while or have someone who is fimiliar with all the VoiceOver Gestures show you how to use it.
Well yeah, how else would you use it? If you want to explore a new device, you're going to test it out, see what its buttons do, etc. With a touch screen, you can't do that. You have to just tap random places and hope you're actually doing something right. I'm sorry but that would just frustrate the shit out of me. I actually think it's sad that people want this crap and that's what the general public wants. I sincerely hope there will always be a demand for phones with buttons because you'll never see me poking and prodding my way around. That just makes me feel blind lol. If worst ever came to worst I would use Skype for all my calls. I'd much rather pay for that than $300+ for a phone with 10000 features I'll never use anyway.
Nobody showed me how to use the iphone when I first got it. There is a wealth of info online about how to use the touch screen. Granted, it was a little difficult, but after using it for a while with an open mind, I've come to be proficient with it, even if its not totally optimal.
With iOS 4.1 and a Bluetooth keyboard you now can use all the gestures from the keyboard using VO commands
Here's a site with them on it.
Enjoy
Still regardless its parden my French shitty. Its a lot slower and yucky I don't have tha pations for that. Another problom is things on screens move, and buttons stay where they should. Sure things on screens would still move but you can find it faster. To me finding something on a eyephone is like dropping something on the floor and using the sercle methid. Sure it works but a lot of times it takes forever. Oh and looking for something on a iye phone tilt it and buy screen.
see tahts just it .. you guys are still think of the iPhone and using it from a sighted prespective and thats not how it works with voice over at all.. i had the same misconceptions about using one untill i just got one cus it made the most financial sense in my situation . but with voice over on you can still navigat it much like you would in menu style stucture with a up and down arrow and left to right arrow like you would a nokia phone with buttons using talks or mobile speak and the iPhone is so snappy non e of that lag with talks or mobile speak so i actually zip around on my iPhone much quicker thani ever did on a phone with buttons
Also, from what I understand, your iPhone doesn't move things around: you have to decide to move it, otherwise you can use it the way you had been, remembering where stuff is positionally. That spatial freedom sounds really useful! If I were young and unencumbered, I'd buy one for sure.
Honestly, people have tuns of misconceptions about iPhones and the like, even more than they would with talks or mobile speak, it seemes.
Truth is, I did to. Then I tried it out, and it was easy, with in 30 minutes, I was up and running, no remembering hundreds of commands on the phone to do the simplest of things, no restrictions as to how you got around the screen (as in no quaddrent system, no virtual joystick.) On top of that, its just so fast, and you've got access to thousands of apps. For a totally blind user, their's another great feature. The web browser can truely give you a sense of context as to how pages really look and what is related to what and why. I'm not totally blind so i've always had a sense of format, but for many, its an eye opener, and provides more clarity than they've previously had. Though in all honesty, this applies a bit more to iPads.Honestly, I know this sounds either like i'm an apple fanboy or something, but I'm not saying the following in that kind of manner. I'm honestly willing to bet you that the iPhone is the most access friendly smartphone solution out their. In my opinion, code factory and nuance need to step up their game. So, in short, until you've had the device in front of you, and you've tried using it with an open mind, you're simply going to be carrying misconceptions around with you and spreading them like the plague.
Interesting Striker, it was just that visual layout I had when trying the iPad for fifteen minutes. Admittedly I didn't flick too much then which is something one learns how, I was just using the page the way i knew it was laid out. I can't see at all but as a programmer have a good understanding of how things are laid out. I really would love to use OMoby and SayIt among other things, hope they work with iPod Touch / Wi Fi, now that the new Touch has a camera.
I'm the same way. I was skeptical as all get out before I had the chance to try out an IPhone at my local AT&T store, and while I didn't learn it all in a single half hour (that would've been quite an accomplishment), but it was enough to convince me it would be worth buying at the very least an IPod Touch. I bought one a few months back and love it and as soon as finances permit I fully intend to get an IPhone.
Another great thing is their are so many ways to do things with the device, if you need to flick, flick, if you want to explore, explore.
I like the Iphone but I still like moble speak's way of the touch screen. After all we as blind people have to learn a screenreader to use the computer. I am not here to spred any roomers. After all I have the Ipod touch love it as well. So if you will all leave my name out of not liking a touch screen I belive moble speak, talks, and the Iphone have there place in the grand scheme of things.
Just so you know, it's Mobile, not Moble. But personally though I have been using Mobile Speak now for almost the past two years I don't like it as much as I liked Talks and don't even like the Smartphone I'm using near as much as I liked my Nokia 6682. The only reason I upgraded at all at that time was because when AT&T bought out the company we were using, which used to be called Edge Wireless, they told me my phone would no longer be supported or insured if it were ever lost or damaged. And Windows Smartphones appeared to be the only available phones that I could install a screen reader on. Of course the folks at the local store kept getting it wrong, thinking I wanted voice commands instead of speech output. So I ended up with a Motorola Q9H phone and while it was cool at first I've grown to hate it with a passion. I don't know if I've just gotten unlucky with both phones or if that particular model is just defective. But the first such phone I got I installed a demo of Mobile Speak on it and within about an hour or so it had locked up on me. Oh the phone would still turn on and off and yes it would still receive calls, and yes you could still answer, but the keyboard wouldn't work and nor would Mobile Speak. So then I got the phone I'm currently using, which is more or less the same model. Well the battery life on these phones is pure crap even if you don't use it often and it also likes to lock up on me, at which times it takes forever to power off and then even longer to turn back on. Then there are all too frequent occasions where, though the phone will receive a call it neither rings nor saves a record of the call for later reference. The only evidence that the call occurred is if the caller chooses to leave a message. This has happened to me on several occasions and once or twice the call was important. Needless to say I've grown to hate this phone with a passion. And since I'm no longer willing to pay extra for Talks or Mobile Speak (even with the discount from AT&T and I wouldn't get the Owasys 22C even if it was still being manufactured and distributed, the only other option is the IPhone. I don't consider those Verizon LG phones to be accessible since not all the menus talk. So I wouldn't go with one of those either. And since the IPhone's touch screen is, in fact, perfectly usable, I see no reason not to go with one. Although I'm going to shoot for a 3GS model if at all possible since I'm still leery of those antenna issues and the way I generally hold the phone I might bump that by accident.
considering you are probably gonna get acase for the phone anyways get an diPhone 4 don't pay attention to the antenna myth and have the better camera and gps reciever .. really the bugs on the 4 are so not worth passing it up for
We'll see. Finances are going to play a major part in my decision. If I'm working by the time I go to get a new phone I may go ahead and get a 4G but if not I'm going to try for a 3GS since that may be all I can afford. And I'm not likely to use either the Camera or the GPS (I'd be more comfortable saving up for a Trecker Breeze, something I know for certain to be accessible), those features don't matter much. About all I MIGHT use the camera for would be to record YouTube videos.
You're also likely to use the camera for OCR (SayIt for one), even OMoby which is a way of crowd-sourcing vision. Just because you can't see the pictures in no way minimizes the use of a camera by a totally blind person on a smart device like this. Just think about that part of it before you say you won't need a camera. In fact, for us it could be more needed than someone sighted where it's nice to have.
I can say I will never use the camera or need it. What use would a blind person have for one except to atempt to take pictures of your sighted friends or for there sighted friends to use it? If I can't see the pictures the feature is useless.
Yeh, I've used my iPhone to read mail and browse menues before, all thanks to that camra.
Yep, I'm total and use the camera on my phone all the time for OCR. I read mail and menus nearly every day. It's not an IPhone, but the point is that the camera can have value to the blind as well. I've been seeing stuff lately from IPhone users about an app where you can take a picture of an object and the app will identify it for you. For instance, hold up a red shirt, take a pic and the thing will say, "red shirt". Very cool and potentially useful. Also, I saw a friend using the bar code reading app on the IPhone. So there's another use for the camera for the blind. Don't rule it out. Cameras on phones aren't just for pictures anymore.
But you still have to get the thing positioned right and you'd still need sighted help for that. I'm sorry but I'll believe it when I see it, no pun intended.
the app actually gives you some pointes on positioning things right .. and seeing how blind users here are using it without sighted help i guess thats not convincing enough for you eh? And if you would rather spend your money on a treker breeze when there are plent o totally accessible GPS apps taht get updated way more frequently than any of those standalone blindy device does, then feel free to flush the money down the toilt to each their own i guess
I'm the type of person who has to actually experience it to believe it. I'm sorry but that's how I am. That's why I'm not jumping up and down about the NFB's supposed car for the blind. And you said it right there about the Trecker Breeze versus the IPhone, to each their own. Anyway I might not even have to spend any money on the Breeze if things work out the way I'm hoping since one of the gide dog schools I plan to apply to offers them free to their students. But seeing how touchy the IPod Touch and the IPhone can be sometimes about being moved around I'd rather go with the Breeze for my GPS needs. Heck, I haven't even fully made up my mind if I'm going to use GPS period, much less which one I'll use.
I don't think I could use a blindy spasific solution just because of how non frequently they get updated with new points of interest and other features. Ultimately it comes down to this, piece of mind, or up to date.
We'll see what happens. If I try the GPS ap and I'm convinced then so be it. But unless it's in a carrying case within easy reach I could see there being some trouble accessing it while walking. As I've said before I hope to get a case that I can clip to my belt. My first phone after I moved out here to Idaho came in such a case and that was the most convenient, especially since the phone in its case could be detached from the actual belt clip so that if the phone rang you didn't have to unclip the whole thing just to answer it. Then you could just return the phone to the clip still on your belt after the call was over. I hope they make something along those lines for the IPhone.
I'm currently using a motorola droid for business, but I have an iPhone 4 for testing purposes for a company I work with. If I weren't in a contract with VZW, and could switch with out an ETF, believe me, I'd jump ship instantly. When it's all said and done, the iPhone is one of the most complete solutions there is. I work with the droid daily, and there are so many things that literally make me want to scream. The guys on googles development team for the most part have no clue of what an end user actually wants. From a useability stand point the droid is certainly usable, but to ignore practical use for the touch screen is just annoying. Those who like a keyboard, that's great, but there are times I want to opperate my phone with one hand, and that's not possible if I have to slide out a keyboard just to dial a number, or check my email. Not cool!
That's why I opted not to go with android. Granted, I've got enough sight to probably make use of the touch screen to one degree, or another, but still, I knew that would frustrate me to no end. I hope android access continues to get better though.
Ok, I haven't read most of this thread, but for posts 22 and 23, um, have you even looked on google? Apple has extremely well-written documentation on their phones, unlike other phones.
Still the thought of using a touch phone is just ... I like buttons and I'm happy with the Nokiea 6650. Also tried messing around with a eyepod touch it sucked, and the voice was terible.
But tell me this, how long did you play with the Touch? I was every bit as skeptical as you are now when I first heard about it, but after several opportunities to play with the IPhone and then the IPod Touch I'm firmly convinced that the touch screen can be truly accessible and that the makers of such devices are now wel and truly without excuses for choosing not to make their products accessible. And I agree that the documentation on Apple's devices is both extremely well-written and accessible. And while I do agree with you about the default voice on these products being terrible, you can change that if you so choose. You just have to go into International Settings and then Language or something. That's what I did fairlye arly on in my personal Touch quest and I really haven't noticed that doing this has any undesired effects on the way I use the device. If you really sit down with it you can figure out how to use a touch screen device and specifically the IPod Touch and IPhone in ways that will work for you. Because mark m words, if enough blind people catch on I firmly see the days of physical keyboard devices being numbered5. So I'd keep an open mind about this if I were you.
I like the iPhone mainly because the touch screen thing is fun, but you either have to get someone to turn voiceover on for you in the shop or plug it into the computer when you get home which I didn't mind when I had mine. The main reason I got rid of my iPhone was because I found texting a pain because it was slower, but it would be fun to see how it works on the iPhone 4 as apparently it's got some touch typing setting.
I like the fact that the iPhone is accessible without spending any extra money though, but with talks I like it because if a sighted person wanted to use my phone they could very easily. The thing I don't like about mobile speak when I used the demo is that apparently it divides the screen into 4 sections, so if someone wanted to borrow it they'd have to be totally blind and learn to use the screen reader, or sighted and take the screen reader off altogether. Also I found mobile speak very slow in terms of delay and wasn't too keen on the voice, or the price for that matter.
Harmony actually no you do not need to remove moble speak to use the device, it has a mode call "stylus mode" when this is turned on my wife can use my phone. Also the speed facter of your processerm, and other facters effect moble speak as weel. Just giving you Something to think about. Jeff to each of his own, I love the Ipod touch.
The main advantage to touch screens from a sighted prospective is just picking up a device and being able to touch what it is you're looking to do. No looking through menus or pulling out the keyboard to do things. I have colleagues that I work with everyday that will flat out tell you a touch interface is typically quicker for one handed operation when time is money. Personally I can tell you it's deffinitly a lot faster on my droid for my wife to grab an app from the touch screen than me to go find it, and it's not very slow by any means from the keyboard, it's just that much quicker from the touch screen. I'll be very surprised if in 4 or 5 years if you'll be able to find any feature phones with a numeric keyboard, and I think phones with physical qwerty keyboards won't be the norm.
When the iPhone came out all the big wigs in the AT world went on and on about not ever being able to make a touch interface completely accessible. Well, if that's not what apple has done than I'm not sure what accessible is. Also, I challenge you to give a new user one who has no preconceived ideas or experience with a mobile screen reader. Give him a Windows mobile phone running mobile speak 4, and an iPhone with IOS 4.1 and see which one he's able to accomplish the most tasks with and which one he learns to use quickest. When I first got Mobile speak in 2005 the concept of all the taps and virtual keys was nuts, but I got so used to it, that when MS 4 came out, all the new fangled ways of accessing and navigating made no sense to me, and it took me what felt like forever to be able to productively use my phone again! Finaly I got fedup with windows mobile and it's lack in access to just normal things, sure it's fine for everyday use making phone calls, and sending text, but it just didn't offer enough. I switched to a droid, and while I'll be the first to admit it's not iPhone, from a usability standpoint, there is absolutely nothing from the mobile speak side of things that I'm unable to accomplish on the droid that has a free screen reader and so many more options aviable as far as applications and real life practical uses go.
Know what you mean. I like the phones with the qwerty keypads better than the numeric ones and I could probably get used to a touch screen one if I was to get say the iPhone where the speech is built right in. The problem would come if a blind person was to get one of the others which probably doesn't have speech built in, or very limited speech and try using it. You could be pressing anything.
And touch screen or no, don't forget oMoby, SayIt, and Navigon amongst oh so many other useful iPhone applications maybe not written explicitly for us but inordinately useful to us. A major downside to the way the iPhone is portrayed to the blind community has been its toys. Unless you're a kid, on the public dole, or otherwise independently wealthy, that's not a reason to purchase a device. However, with your iPhone you have what amounts to a bill reader, a text recognition OCR package, a package identifier, and so many other things you can download right from the App Store. Were my daughter blind that is precisely what I would be outfitting her with. It's the usefulness of the thing, and the increased vision, basically, that we are afforded because of it.
hmm I guess beeing blind for so long I just became used to learning commands, so its second nature. As for the Iphone or in my case the Ipod it took me a few days. Again, this is just me and my personal experience. I do agree adventually we will not see so many keypads as we do now.
To activate voice over, just tripple click home. I didn't think that would work, but when I picked up an iphone 4 in the ATNT store, I just did it to see what would happen, and now the voice over prompt comes up asking if you would like to turn it on.
Would you turn it off the same way? And does this prompt actually speak? Granted I don't know when I'll be getting my IPhone (though certainly not before I get on my own plan instead of on my mom's which I'm currently on), but I am more or less hell bent on getting one since as I've said before I'm no longer willing to pay extra for a separate screen reader even if it was within my financial means to do so. As it is getting an IPHone may be pushing it a little bit but not as much as getting a phone and then paying the extra ninety or more for a separate reader. And since I don't like Mobile Speak anymore my only other option would be Talks. Better I think to go with a phone that has a fully-functioning reader built in. And I'm curious, would these aps you mention be able to identify and read mail? Or would that be pushing it? Be nice for those times when I get the mail while my fiance's away at work.
The prompt doesn't speak, but yes you turn it off the same waaya so if a sighted person wants to use your phone all you have to do is tripple click home again, and hand it to them.
Of course if the prompt doesn't speak how do you even confirm it? Thankfully my fiance has both her own phone and IPod so that isn't likely to come up very often I would think.
I din't play with one long, but it was enough to completely turn me away, I don't like tapping a screen to find out what it is. Having to find something or once you even got used to the menus I could never hit the exact thing and it would fustrate me to hell and back. With buttons I at least have a guide and can tell what I'm doing. If you like the touch screen more power to you, but I'm sticking with buttons.
Solona
You must not have played with it long. As for tapping, you don't have to worry about tapping the same spot on the screen once you've found something in the menu. THe option stays highlighted for a good few seconds from my experience. And as much as I hate to say it you'd do well to get used to the idea of a touch screen since as I've said before it's very possible that the days of devices with physical keyboards and buttons will be numbered if enough blind people catch on to this new way of doing things. Then if your old phone ever dies on you permanently you're going to have a problem. It's sort of like clinging to the use of floppy disks when they're more or less dead now or soon will be. There'll come a time when your old button phone will no longer be supported, much less easily obtained. And it's attitudes like this that make me understand Striker's topic on another board.
to jeff in post 61, obvviously you missed my post on approaching the iPhone like a sighted person, cuz thats exactly how you were using it and i had the same issues the first time i Played with a 3GS over a year ago. But since so many people i knew was using one and doing so so successfully and that fact that they added the features that were keeping me from switching with iOS4 and the iPhone 4 i figured why not get one and learn to use it... Needless to say once you learn to approach using the device as a voice over user instead of trying to use it like asighted user like you did, it opens up a new world to you. And just a few weeks back i fired up my old nokia 6550 to clean it off before passing it on to a friend who can't get an iPhone due to financial reason just yet, and i want to throw that phone across te room cuz it was just so slow and sluggish and etc after using the iPhone for a few months now. So if you can get used to the really flat and hard to define at first keypad that is the nokia 6550 give the iPhone the 30 day challenge you wont be disappointed Trust Me as someone who was in a similiar place as you are currently.
Jeff I hate to say it but the others on this board are right, the keybaord is not going to stick around for ever, so just giving you food for thought.
I was the same way like I said, and it sure didn't take me thirty days to get used to it. More like three or four. Once I got used to flicking the screen to find the various options I wanted it didn't take me long at all. Like Starfly said, physical keyboards aren't going to be around forever so you may as well get used to a touch screen before you're forced to.
If you believe its not going to work for you, this allows you to cut things down to what will. All that aside, I agree with the above that blind people need to approach it differently than sighted.
Brian, yes, its things like that that caused me to write the other post, oh, lets go into this with our minds made up based on others hateful conotationsabout this phone, or that phone, and give no thought but to trying to do things the way they did/prove what they are talking about is the same for them. I agree with leo's points on my topic, but I still think people being narrowminded about the way they approach things stagnates groath and limits options for all.
I actually think that touch screenes will eventually dominate the consumer market, with them lingering alittle longer in the professional market but that's just one prediction in millions.
You know Striker some of this is interesting. When I tried an iPad I didn't flick too much but thought maybe I could memorize where stuff was. The keyboard was pretty easy, but with your write-ups on flick and swipe I can totally see how we'd use that.
To those of you saying keyboards won't last forever, do you really think touch screens are catching on among the elderly? And before you say they don't have cell phones so it doesn't matter, that's not true, all kinds of people have cell phones these days.
Keyboards are going to be around for a while because they are simple and easy to use. The older generation are allways going to want something simple to use buttons. Beleve it or not but there are teens today that don't know how to send emails. I am taking a basic tech class in college and this girl nexted me didn't even know what her email was. Not everyone likes the touch screen also older stuff sticks around. Bands release there alboms on vinal and before you say they don't Kings of Leon release there alboms on vinal. The older technology is never going to fully go away. Floppy disks are going away cause they break easy, but records, VHS and tapes are stil around. Infact the fewture of technology is going to be just thinking about someting and u can text. With all the study going in to computer chip implants. How many times do you get a facebook group event new phone need numbers, or here about my phone broke again. These thousand dollar eyephones are so breakable that people are getting new ones every month. The first phone I ever had a flip phone a few years ago still works the trueth is sure things don't last as long but phones with buttons are lasting a lot longer then shitty eye phones, and don't have bugs like the new Iey phone did. Before you go cridasizing people that like phone with buttons remember its their choice. Stop being blind to the fact that we have a right to choose what we want and don't want, like and dislike. I tried the eye phone don't like it and thats that. I am a huge tech geek so beleve me when I say I don't like something I know I gave it enough of a chance.
actually have you ever given an old person a touch screen phone and let them pla with it for a few minute? Yeah my grandmother was allhell bent ona phone with buttons cuz she wanted something simple that makes calls, then my aunt showed her her touch screen phone (not an iPhone) for a few minutes left her alone with it for another few minutes, and by the time she came back for her her phone my grandmother had changed her mind. Why, cuz she realized a touch screen was more intuitive. Anything she wanted to do she just touched that button on the screen and it happened and thats what it took to convert her. So the elderly are just like the blind people who never use one and assume that's its true tricky or difficlut untill they use one. Oh and my grandmother isn't the only older person i have seen this happen with either. And to the last poster how can you say you gave one a fair chance when everyone who actuallys uses one is telling you were approaching it from the wrong prespective. Hey i am quite the tech enthusist as well and i made that mistake the first time, so that arguement really doesn't hold much weight. I still maintain have a blind person show you how to use an iPhone the way its intended to be used with voice over and you will realize the concept of up and down arrowing through things that you are used to with buttons isn't lost after all.
It's just done differently is all. Does it take some getting used to? Sure it does, but that's true of every new thing. But it is doable. And I've got friends with IPhones and they havent' had to get new ones every month so obviously not every IPhone user is having to do so. I had to get a new Motorola Q9 phone two or three days after I got my first one and that phone still acts up on me almost two years later. Sure texting's going to take some getting used to with the IPhone keypad but I'm willing to give it a try. And if I have to get a bluetooth keyboard for that part then so be it. But I'd much rather get used to the new way of doing things in case I do happen to be right and physical keyboards aren't around forever. Things like vinal, VHS and cassette tapes may still be around but I imagine they're a lot less comon since they do break easily. Heck, even if you take good care of them cassettes eventually die simply from being played over and over since the tape inside them stretchs and eventually just breaks. Hence the CD and then digital music. For years we had buttons and now touch screens are becoming more and more common. Now that it's proven they can be made accesible I foresee the potential for more such devices becoming usable by us. And i agree with Leo that, whether I get one right away or not (I still haven't quite decided), IPads will probably outsell real computers within a few years.
You are right about vhs and cassettes but the point is they still exist because they still have a place for some people. I'm not even going into the fact of whether they're more expensive now simply because they're harder to obtain, because I've seen it go both ways, same with vinyl. The point is, interest fluctuates, collectors go after certain things which makes those highly sought-after things more expensive, but also leaves quite a bit of room for used stuff that is actually cheap and still in good condition. As for the touch screen, I don't see how changing my perspective will make it any easier. It's this flat surface with no way of knowing what you're doing, and that's a logical way to look at it. For example, I never thought it was impossible to use a computer, even before I knew screen readers existed. I was taught to type without one, and when I was little my family had an old Apple that had lots of games I attempted to play. All learning to use Jaws did was broaden my horizons and make it possible to do a lot of things I didn't even know a computer could do, let alone with Jaws and my young age. But there's no basis like that for a touch screen.
DO you know how much of the older demographic the iPad has garnered, simpley because there isn't anything to learn, you simpley touch what you want.
Do some research on it the numbers will surprise you. I'll dig up a link I was reading later if I have time.
Um I know when I like something and when I think it sucks touch screens are not for me. Again its my Preference not my ingnerance like some of you may think. I simply do not like touch screens and I gave them a shot. Your argument with your grandma is just ... A old perxson isn't going to take the time to lern something for the simple fact its not something they can grasp. Remember cell phones are fairly new, eyephones even newer old people arn't going to get all that stuff. Regardless let people who want buttons on there phones have them. Get off your high horse because we all like different things and have different prefferences, and no amount of things you try to shuv down people's throats is going to change that. When I made this topic I knew I didn't want a touch screen, but now after all this shit I've been giving I never want to see one again.
touch screens are obviously here to stay, but anyone who says keyboards are going away has their head in the sand and has deployed absolutely nothing.
BlackBerry, by far the largest business-carrier-driven OS / mobile model, is not in large part moving to touch screens because character for character, it doesn't enter that fast. If they were to include the dictation software available for iPhone, would that change things? Probably.
But only kids think that entire paradigms change overnight or even in fifteen years. People said the mouse would go away because the track ball on it can get dirty, the touch pad was here to stay, and all sorts of reasons. This was what? 1998 or so?
The track pad has a. remained, and b. improved dramatically. But you still see mice all over the place, every office has enough of 'em to fill a TV box with. Instead of the ball, there are sensors now.
Command-lines of all types were also supposed to go away. Your Apple products have a command-line buried in there, and so does Windows of course.
Lotus applications were supposed to go away. They're still out there, running on thousands of servers.
And speaking of servers, Microsoft at one point predicted NT would surpass Unix distros for servers ... and then, along came ... Apache, among many other things, which only ran on Unix.
So, sure, gesture-based UIs totally transform the model of what it means to be a UI, and nothing but good has come of it, but don't be silly: preexisting technologies don't just go away. Businesses - people who actually pay for things with their own money, don't just dump entire infrastructures because some next-gen iPod-swingin' hipsters can send the CFO 100 text messages saying 'omg it's so gr8 we should totally dump the keyboard & pay $$ 4 tuch screens cuz they're the wave'.
OK I imagine my hipster imitation is probably bad,but point still stands.
Use what you like, or more to the point, what helps you get 'er done, that's what drives markets.
whoa, whoa, whoa to the last post. why are you getting so defensive if you truly don't like touch screens? there seems to be more to this than you're willing to admit; at least from the sounds of things, anyway.
to get back on topic, though, I have a nokia n 75 that has mobile speak, and it works wonderfully!!
I actually find touch screens to be quite useful. Or, rather, gesture-based UIS to be quite useful, since that is what Apple is using.
Will they be used in simulations, the sciences, aircraft, any number of other places? I should hope so. But like many innovators, Apple tested this one out on what for many was a new toy, to begin with. It is now becoming an incredible tool; not just the screen, but the entire phone's sensors. I may have waxed pithy about iPod-swingin' hipsters, who IMHO set themselves up for taking a slight poke in fun once in awhile, but by no means was I defensive *against* touch screens.
Au contraire, I got a construction worker friend of mine to get his semi-literate self on the iPhone so he could use the gesture-based technology in some advanced leveling and other measurements applications available on the App Store. And yes, he's a big enough man to have been kidded about the semi-literate / took two years to read a book part ... laughs at it himself ...
Defensive? That's really weird.
Well first a simple I don't like touch screens didn't do shit now I'm to being to defenceful there is no winning with you guys.
Oh there is something more then me not liking touch screens, its the fact that everyone seems to think if I don't like them I'm being igneret to new technology. My opinion is being shot down left and right when I have a right to my opinion. Just like you have a right to like touch screens you are throwing preferences out the window for what you prefurr and using shitty logic to get me to switch to eyephones. I feel sorry for you guys and I hope you don't shoot down people's preferences in real life.
Never mind the fanboys. I'm not one, but have many reasons why I would personally opt for the gesture-based technology if I could, the apps being high on that list. However, markets, not mouths, decide what stays and what goes.
LeoGuardian, you and I posted at the same time apparently; I was referring to the poster before you, so I sincerely apologize.
Oh that's OK was wondering that after I posted it.
Stiill wonder if keyboard devices will use some form of gestures like shake, point, slant, portrait, landscape, etc. No reason from an engineering perspective why not. I just think there's so much available in the multidimensionality of gestures. Not even just two or three dimensional UIs.
Leo Guardian is right. That was the point I was trying to make earlier, the fact that technology changes and evolves. We can't stop it, but we most certainly do have the right to our preferences and all of you who are saying Jeff and I have our heads buried in the sand need to grow up. As an example, I brought up vinyl because while turn tables are not the norm, and most people laugh at me for having one, it does have its place. Tapes once had their place too, and I'm sure there are a lot of people who still use them too. The fact is, no form of technology, no matter how primitive or advanced, is immune to breaking, malfunctioning, etc. I'm sure when tapes came along, people were ecstatic because they were portable. When records came along people were stoked because they could now listen to music in their own homes. Did both systems have their flaws? Of course. Do cd's have their flaws? Hell yeah they do. Do computers, mp3's IPods have their problems? Yes they do. In our society we all want bigger and better things, unless we choose to take a less bombastic approach. I'm using music technology as my main argument because that's what I'm most interested in, but it extends to everything from the days when dialup internet was the new craze to now when most people cringe at the thought of its turtle-esque speed. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: keyboards aren't going away anytime soon, just like global warming isn't going to happen anytime soon, no matter how much the media wants you to believe it. While keyboards will undoubtedly become less efficient as developers slowly abandon them, that's not to say they'll become completely useless. Attacking someone for wanting to stick with something that works is absolutely pointless because it will keep working. Perhaps phones with keyboards will be even more stable than those with touch screens in the long run because for the most part they're built to last. Of course there are exceptions, but that's true with anything.
Jeff, I think the point a lot of people are trying to make to you is that being so set in your ways won't get you very far in life. so, before getting so defensive/accusing others of personally attacking you, you might oughta think of it from that perspective.
people are only trying to help from what I can tell; it's your choice whether to accept it or not.
I disagree. Basically they're telling him that after he just invested a lot of money in his new phone, he should throw it down the crapper because in the blink of an eye it will be utterly useless. I might be exaggerating slightly, but that's how I'm hearing a lot of what these people have to say.
The point I think many were trying to make is that to dismiss the touch UI as unusable doesn't make sense. Now to say that you prefer a device with a keyboard, hey nothing wrong with that. DO I think the popularity of touch screen devices will simpley grow over the next few years as far as the consumer market is concerned. Without a doubt!
Right now the iPad is the most covetted device right now by just about every Tech MFR out there. I mean even Rim introduced their play book yesterday in an attempt to copy it. The consumer market as a whole is looking for more than a phone. They are looking for a consumption device. For most, it's not good enough to have a phone that simpley calls people. In order to meet that need, it seems the touch interface is what has made the most sens until this point. Even many of the droid devices are abandoning a qwerty keyboard in favor of a device that has extremely fast processing, with a big touch screen! DO I think phones with keyboards as a whole will go away? Certainly not, but from a consumer standpoint, the more advanced phones offering that consumption experience will likely be touch based.
I think my points wern't correctly understood. I was in no way demeaning you or anyone else for their choices, actually I believe choice is a good thing. I just advocate thinking for your self, trying for your self, researching for your self,and coming to a conclusion for your self rather than taking statements from friends or friends offriends making overgeneralized claim as fact. Speaking of overgeneralization, on this bord, its quite clear that many people can't create an effective argumentative fraimwork with out it.
I agree with you, James; well said.
To screaming turtle and jeff, sorry if you took my comments as calling you ignorant. However the way you two speak of the iPhone touch interface makes it very obvious that you haven't approached it from a non visual user point as of yet. It seems you 2 are so against the touch screen that you can't get over that eisual part of it. Think about it your nokia phone with buttons doesn't give you any relationship to where things are on the screen at all does it. you don't know where buttons are or where things are on a list .. you just know u up and down arrow to the option you want and press an enter button etc etc etc.All i was trying to say is one can use an iPhone in simply the same manner with out haveing to know where anything is on the screen and actually navigating through items quicker as there is no button just a flick motion and a double tap anywhere to slect your item. i also agree choice is great and if you want to stick your phones with buttons then whatever floats your boat. However considering you can get and iPhone for as little as $99 and have it work full accessibility wise right after you turn it on just makes the most financial sense, and thats what drew me personally to finally giving it the 30 day challenge i urge others to do.
I've just gotten the impression that he really didn't play with it for a reasonable amount of time, or it's entirely possible he might at least have gotten comfortable with it. Maybe physical keyboards will never fully go away but if it ever comes to a point where touch screens become shall we say, the norm, those people who swear by the keyboard and only by the keyboard might run into some problems. As for never knowing where stuff is on the flat surface of the touch screen that's not true. If you spend a reasonable time with it you can learn what's where and yes, even memorize it.